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Atheist bus adverts spark complaint to watchdog



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Published Date: 08 January 2009
AN ATHEIST advertising campaign claiming "There's probably no God" has been reported to the regulator.
Buses in York are among 600 buses across England, Scotland and Wales due to carry the slogan in the four-week campaign.

The £140,000 money raised will also pay for 1,000 advertisements on London Underground from Monday.

Stephen Green, national
director of the fundamentalist Christian Voice ministry, complained to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) yesterday, saying the adverts break the ASA's codes on substantiation and truthfulness.

"It is given as a statement of fact and that means it must be capable of substantiation if it is not to break the rules," he said.

"There is plenty of evidence for God, from people's personal experience, to the complexity, interdependence, beauty and design of the natural world.

"But there is scant evidence on the other side, so I think the advertisers are really going to struggle to show their claim is not an exaggeration or inaccurate, as the ASA code puts it."

The adverts contain the slogan: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life," whilst the ASA code states that "marketers must hold documentary evidence to prove all claims, whether direct or implied, that are capable of objective substantiation".

They were paid for with a fundraising drive prompted by a suggestion from comedy writer Ariane Sherine, who received support from the British Humanist Association (BHA) and atheist campaigner Richard Dawkins.

Ms Sherine had objected to a set of Christian advertisements running on London buses in a piece written for the Guardian's Comment is Free last June.

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the British Humanist Association, said they were not taking the Christian Voice complaint seriously.

"I've sought advice from some of our key people here, but I'm afraid all I've got out of them so far is peals of laughter," she said in a statement.

"I am sure Stephen Green really does think there is a great deal of evidence for a God (though presumably only the one that he believes in), but I pity the ASA if they are going to be expected to rule on the probability of God's existence.

"However, if they do investigate we will be very happy to respond."

An ASA spokesman said: "We have accepted the complaint. We have logged it and we are going to be assessing it over the next couple of days and from that assessment we'll decide whether to contact the advertiser."



The full article contains 435 words and appears in n/a newspaper.
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  • Last Updated: 08 January 2009 5:16 PM
  • Source: n/a
  • Location: Yorkshire
 
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Claudius,

Hedon 09/01/2009 10:09:39
Personally, I can't see the purpose of a complaint against an avertisement so crass.

Atheists take the position (argued rationally by some) that God does not exist.

On their behalf and (reportedly) with their support, a statement is made that God "probably" doesn't exist.

But this isn't the view of the atheist at all: rather, it is the position held by the agnostic. The agnostic says "possibly" or "possibly not": he considers the existence of God to be an open question, the answert to which he simply doesn't have. (It is an honest position).

Meanwhile, the atheist "disbelieves" because he recognises no evidence that justifies belief. Some (less honest) reject the notion that anyone else might have recognised anything they have not. Dawkins, I'm afraid, belongs to this second category.

The only charge to be brought against those who commissioned this campaign is one of misrepresenting their own case, thereby destroying it.

It hardly seems worthwhile.

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Green,

Dundee 09/01/2009 12:10:29
Great!

Christian Voice have a lot of money, this is a good thing for them to waste it on.

Oops sorry, they get tax relief don't they so its partly our money they are wasting. Oops its all to support God this waste of money. Can't god support himself?
3

saneatheist,

Bixter 09/01/2009 17:01:31
The ads are in response to a Christian ad (on buses)Saying something like "The only way to God, is through Jesus"
As Hanne Stinson said in the article above "I pity the ASA if they are going to be expected to rule on the probability of God's existence."
4

RedFerret,

09/01/2009 21:32:43
Claudius;

Most people I know define the term Atheism as the lack of belief in a god or gods. To put it another way, if you believe in a god you are a theist, any other position is atheistic (Although many people who come under this catagory do not call themselves atheists), therefore to state "There probably is no god" is entirely atheistic.

Agnosticism relates to what we know, an agnostic would claim not to know for certain if a god exists. It is possible therefore to be an Agnostic Atheist, someone who does not believe in a god, but doesn't rule it out. Atheism commonly seen in the media is made out to be the strong atheist kind, i.e. we know that there is no god, however (as you might expect) this does not paint the full picture.

This does nothing to mis-represent the "case" for atheism, nor destroy it.

Atheism/Theism = a question of belief, Agnosticism = a question of knowledge. Hope this helps.

TRF
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Claudius,

Hedon 10/01/2009 11:52:55
Dear TRF:
Thank you for your contribution: it gave me something to think about, though I believe it contains some errors in logic.

The position of a theist is simply that God or (gods) exist; (and the position of a monotheist, that there is only one God).

As you say, the atheist simply disbelieves in the existence of gods and in God.

And given that he disbelieves in the existence of gods or God, it is not consistent with his position to declare that God "probably" does not exist. His view, if held honestly, doesn't allow it - just as a Christian cannot expect to be taken seriously if he only feels able to argue that God "probably" exists. For both atheist and theist, the question is closed.

For the agnostic, on the other hand, the question is open. Thus, your contention that anyone whose position differs from a declared belief in God must be an atheist simply doesn't work: agnostics neither believe nor disbelieve: they simply take the position that they "don't know".

With respect, I submit that the term Agnostic Atheist is a logical nonsense - just as it would be a nonsense to refer to an Agnostic Christian. In the end, the terms cannot accomodate one another; they are not quite oil and water - but neither can they mix.

I think part of the confusion is illustrated in phrases you use like "most people I know define the term ...." and "many people who come under this catagory do not call themselves atheists ...". When we have people redfining what words mean to suit an argument, there is no basis for rational debate.

I therefore, at the risk of becoming tedious, am obliged to repeat my position: namely, that a man who claims to ne an atheist, but can only bring himself to assert that God "probably" doen't exist is not stating the atheist position at all, because the atheist position unequivocally is that God does not exist. This certainly is the position taken by Professor Dawkins - and, taking that position, he cannot reasonably endorse the wor
6

Claudius,

Hedon 12/01/2009 10:21:53
....he cannot reasonably endorse the words "probably" doesn't exist" in any discussion relating to the existence of God.
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rjc1008,

Leeds 14/01/2009 13:24:31
Agnosticism, as I see it, is that position that we cannot know whether or not a god exists or for that matter what kind of god it is. It's not quite "There's probably no god", although the balance of evidence may look that way at times, but it is effectively the same in practice.

Not knowing if a god exists, or what kind of god it is, means that you have to live your life without that information. We don't know if we will go to heaven or hell or reincarnate or just cease so we do not factor it into our lives. It means that we must do our best with this life.

There is Pascal's Wager, but this does not help much. As stated it does not account for the many possible types of god out there, never mind the question of whether you could convince a god that your cupboard love is genuine. The best policy does seem to be to make the best of this world for everyone in it.

Religious groups sometimes make demands that depend on their belief being true. The mandatory worship in schools is an example of this, as is the idea of teaching Intelligent Design as science. When we do not know if that belief is true we cannot use it to justify the demand. We instead look at real costs and benefits and wonder if the costs for some of these are too high and the real benefits low if at all.

It is not that religion doesn't have anything positive to contribute. There are a lot of very good ideas there. It is that dogmatism and insistence on a specific religion being both the only way and indivisible and beyond question that is a problem.

I started following news about this bus from a position of just sitting back and watching the fireworks. I have seen things said by religious people in the debate that make me question certain aspects of religion. Maybe the religious people entering the debate are, by self selection, more extreme examples so emphasise the negative aspects. I look at what religions like Christianity claim to teach and wonder how out of the ordinary these people a
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David Christian,

London 28/01/2009 01:06:06
Hi,

we need to Love everyone and instead of complaining about the atheist campaign, we need to embrace and welcome the debate. Now the nation and the world are discussing wether or not there is a God, We need to set an example and pray that those sitting on the fence will make the right choice. For more information you can check out the Jesus Bus campaiagn at http://www.awonderfullife,org.uk. They are a christian organisation encouraging the correct response.

God Bless you all.
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