Gary Hetherington Q&A: Leeds Rhinos chief executive on recruitment, underachievement and optimism for future

The eight-time champions are set to miss out on the play-offs for the first time in four years and it is the sixth season in a row they have failed to finish in the top four.

In an exclusive interview with The Yorkshire Post, Rhinos chief executive Gary Hetherington speaks openly about recruitment, the challenges the club have faced and his hopes for the future.

Firstly on this season's performance, has it fallen below expectations?

Yes it has. Clearly last year, we did well to have a really strong finish to the season by making it all the way to the Grand Final. We got beat by a very good St Helens team on the day.

That was a good effort by the coaching staff and the players. That was a team that Rohan Smith had inherited partway through the season.

Going into this season, there were some changes of personnel and we were optimistic that we could kick on and have a really strong season. It was still very much the squad of players that Rohan had inherited.

Rohan's objectives when he came 18 months ago were to have a really good look at the backroom staff, coaching staff and everything to do with the rugby league department including development and decide whether any changes needed to be made.

It could have been that he made no changes but in actual fact there has been a complete overhaul of the backroom staff pretty much through the whole organisation. That has been led by Rohan who has got a lot of new people involved. I think we've got an outstanding backroom staff that is in its infancy in many respects.

In many ways, the team that is finishing the season is a very, very different one to the team that started it. If you look at last week's defeat to Wigan, players like Blake Austin, Aidan Sezer, Zane Tetevano and Kruise Leeming have all either left us or are about to leave. Other senior players like Nene Macdonald, Richie Myler and Justin Sangare were all missing.

Some players have been allowed to leave who didn't feature in future plans and quite a lot of players have been injured as well so it's a very, very different team.

What that's provided of course is opportunities for young players like Corey Johnson, Jack Sinfield, Leon Ruan and others to gain valuable Super League experience.

To answer the question, it has been a particularly disappointing season for us – and indeed half of the other teams in Super League. I'm sure Warrington will be disappointed with their season. I'm sure Huddersfield will be extremely disappointed with their season. Hull likewise and of course both Castleford and Wakefield.

There are clubs like Salford, Leigh and Hull Kingston Rovers who have all done extremely well, along with Catalans, Wigan and St Helens who are fighting it out for the League Leaders' Shield.

I think we've probably had the most competitive Super League season that we've ever had for uncertainty about outcomes and teams excelling and others not living up to their promise.

Certainly from a Leeds Rhinos point of view, this will go down as a disappointing season. It's been very much a season of transition that will see an overhaul of the playing squad in preparation for 2024 which will produce a Rohan Smith squad, which will be a very different squad to the one that he inherited.

The changes we've already made to the backroom staff and throughout the club are very positive. We've now got an outstanding organisation that is ready to provide all the support the players require.

Do you accept the criticism that recruitment hasn't been good enough in recent years?

We do need to get recruitment right. I think it's fair to say that over the years – certainly recent years – there have been quite a number of errors made in that area.

Some of our high-profile players have not delivered what we hoped and expected. That's not a fault of the players; it may be a fault of our judgement in terms of not selecting the right type of players.

Of course, we could always caveat that with what's available at the time. It's essential now that the changes we make for 2024 are very effective ones. In Rohan Smith, we have somebody who is extremely conscious about due diligence and making sure that not only do we bring in players with ability but they've got to add value in terms of character, leadership and overall benefit to our organisation.

We're very, very focused on that. Rohan is at the forefront of that plan.

Is there more of a focus on that because previous signings perhaps haven't quite been right for the culture? Is the fact that several players have moved on mid-season – which is quite uncommon – a worrying trend?

It is very unusual but it's fair to say those players would have wished to stay at Leeds Rhinos. They said that publicly.

They were tough decisions. The easiest decision would be simply to retain players – and that might have been a popular decision as well – but Rohan has made the tough calls.

He's intent on recruiting the players that will fit into his style of play and the type of characters that fit into the type of squad and environment he wishes to produce. He's well on the way to doing that.

It is unusual for that to happen. It is disruptive – there's no doubt about that – and unfortunate for the players themselves who inevitably have to move on and find pastures new. That's an element and essence of the industry we're in.

It has proved to be a particularly disrupted season for us. We've not had the consistency of team selection where most of our senior players have all been playing together.

There have been a couple of exceptions – the opening day at Warrington and last Saturday against Wigan – but almost every other game we've played has been relatively close. We've lost most of the close ones.

Looking back, it has been a disappointing outcome and a very disrupted season – but I believe the tough calls that have been made were all for the better and will actually put us in a really, really strong position to build a very, very competitive team for 2024.

We've already announced some new signings and there are other players to be recruited as well.

Do you plan to replace Zane and Nene – if he doesn't return – from outside the club?

Of course, yes. We've got an outstanding crop of young players. Our head of youth John Bastian, who was head of youth here many years ago, reckons this is the best crop that we've had for 20 years. However, this crop is not ready to be unleashed in Super League next season.

The next two or three years will see the emergence of quite a few outstanding young players into the Rhinos squad.

We certainly need to improve the quality of our squad in terms of ability, leadership and experience for 2024. That's the primary focus at this moment in time.

We've got quite a bit of availability on our salary cap because of the players that are leaving. We've got a bit of scope within the overseas quota market as well.

We're focusing our attention very much overseas, looking at what's available and what will fit our needs.

How many more signings are you targeting?

Several. We're also looking at which of our players are ready to emerge through our system into the first team.

It's the sixth season in a row Leeds have failed to finish in the top four – is there an acceptance that record isn't good enough for a club the size of Leeds Rhinos?

We finished second last year by getting to the Grand Final but yes there is. Every team sets its stall out as to where it can realistically be at the end of the season. We always believe that we could and should be competing in the top four.

Hull, Huddersfield and all those will think the same. We're all competing hard with each other so there's always going to be disappointment at the end of every season.

We want to be as good as we can be and leaders both on and off the field so when we don't achieve that it's a huge disappointment to the club, the fans, the sponsors and the players themselves.

Would you accept that Leeds are held to a higher standard after winning eight titles in 13 years and the expectations match that?

We had the most remarkable period of success that actually lasted for 15 years which in itself is remarkable longevity. It was the most successful period in the club's history.

There's a tendency that we all take that for granted. The homegrown players that we developed – people like Danny McGuire, Rob Burrow, Kevin Sinfield and Ryan Hall – were all outstanding players. The players that we recruited to add value to our squad – like Jamie Peacock, Keith Senior, Brent Webb, Danny Buderus and Gareth Ellis – were all quality players.

That's still very much the policy now. We want to produce our own homegrown team. However, we're always mindful we need to add value – and when there's a player that can add value, we need to recruit them.

That's proving difficult because I think there's been a decline in the number of outstanding players in our competition. The overseas market has become even more difficult because of the salary cap, the extra teams that are playing in the NRL and we are not as attractive to the overseas market as we used to be.

The whole thing has become more challenging – and will continue to be more challenging. We're not saying it's impossible but we need to be really, really good to overcome it.

Are you finding that fewer players want to come and play for the badge and it's becoming more and more about money? Is it a harder sell than it was say 10-15 years ago?

Most players want to be well remunerated and as successful as they can be as well. Playing for a team that has got a better chance of being successful is an attraction.

We've never really had any great difficulty attracting players because we've got an outstanding environment but the number of quality players has diminished and it's a smaller pool now.

We're all competing under the same salary cap so that becomes a challenge in itself. If clubs want to stay in Super League, they need to retain their better players.

There's very little transfer movement. If you look at the number of players that have been transferred and bought over the last three or five years, it's minimal.

On the recruitment for next year, there's a perception that you came to the party late – can you explain the club's approach?

The squad that Rohan inherited midway through 2022, the vast majority of those players were contracted for 2023. That's something that had gone back several years.

There were quite a lot of players on three or four-year contracts that didn't expire until the end of 2023.

We probably made more changes to this year's squad than one could have anticipated but really Rohan had very little flexibility within the salary cap because effectively all our money had been spent on the players that were already contracted. There was very little spare salary cap and very few spots available as well.

Rohan had to make a lot of judgements on players. We went into this season with quite a lot of players in the last year of their contract. He wanted to leave that decision as late as possible to look at what other alternatives there might be as possible replacements.

Does Rohan have a strong say in recruitment?

The head coach of Leeds Rhinos ever since I've been here – which is 27 years – has the first and last say on all player retention and all recruitment. Nobody interferes with that decision – that rests with the head coach.

I play a role in that in terms of providing support but that decision rests with the head coach and always has done, whether that be Rohan Smith, Dave Furner, Brian McDermott, Tony Smith, Graham Murray. My job as an administrator is to convert a coach's decision into a reality.

The head coach is very much involved in the salary cap and the valuations we have on players.

All our head coaches have been at the heart and centre of all those decisions.

In press conferences Rohan gives the impression that he's in the dark - is that just his way of giving nothing away because there's a perception that there's a disconnect, the Blake Austin situation for example?

I think if you talked privately to Rohan, he'd explain that in a bit more detail.

To be honest, I didn't know what was going on there either. That happened at 9.30pm and involved several telephone discussions between me and the chief executive at Castleford that weren't concluded until 10.30pm.

I texted Rohan to simply say there had been some developments and I'd inform him about them in the morning, which is exactly what I did.

I needed to speak to Blake Austin and so did Rohan but it was too late to phone him as well. We had discussions with Blake Austin's manager who was in Australia at the time so it was early in the morning over there.

That decision was made the following day by Rohan and supported by myself on the back of Blake Austin's desire to go to Castleford. Blake, through his manager, made that perfectly well known to us that he really wanted to go to Castleford – not only for the rest of this season but to secure a contract beyond this season. One could perfectly understand the reasons behind that.

All that happened as a whirlwind and because of the transfer deadline, a decision had to be made. We had two options: either grant a release and replace Blake Austin with someone who actually wanted to be here, or refuse and have a disgruntled player on your hands who has been denied an opportunity to further his contractual opportunities.

Is there disappointment from the Leeds end that it happened so late and you couldn't get a replacement in?

The timing couldn't have been more difficult because it literally happened overnight. Normally something like that takes several days.

Because of the deadline and Castleford's urgency and need, the decision had to be made.

It was only made because of Blake's desire to go. We didn't persuade him to go at all.

There was quite a build-up to that with Blake speaking publicly about his contract situation...

I think Blake was getting increasingly frustrated. What Rohan had said to Blake, Aidan, Zane and other players that were coming out of contract in the early part of the season was that we wouldn't be making any decisions quickly.

As the season progressed, all the players knew they could sign for other clubs. After May 1, they're entitled to do that.

We knew they could all join other clubs but Rohan wanted to take as much time as he could before making those decisions. He really wanted to make them at the end of the season but explained to every player that they had the freedom to do whatever suited them best. That was said personally by Rohan to each player.

Because players weren't getting offers, some of them were getting a bit frustrated and concerned. Blake Austin was the only one who chose to go public about it.

Ultimately as we approached the deadline, his need became even greater.

We hadn't offered him a new contract and he read between the lines that he probably wouldn't be offered one.

Just on recruitment more generally, there's a perception among the fans that you're perhaps missing out on players because of an unwillingness to match other clubs in terms of salaries – what do you say to that?

The coach puts a valuation on each player and we try to pay our players according to their value so we don't get out of sync.

Ultimately, you've got £2.1million to play with and a squad of 30 players to fit into that. We try to be as fair and balanced with all our players so to bring in a player who gets well above their value has a knock-on effect to everyone else.

Our policy has always been to determine the value of a player and make that offer. Ultimately, other clubs may exceed it.

You can only spend up to the salary cap and can't spend more. It's important we get the judgements right.

Within the salary cap, you can have two marquee players which is the factor that can be a differential between some clubs.

For the past five years, we've had two marquee players. We've spent our full salary cap during that period. Whether we've got the judgements right on everybody is questionable.

The fans have shown their frustration in recent home games – are you worried they will vote with their feet?

If you look at sports teams and clubs, there will always be frustration. At any given moment, the vast majority of supporters will be disappointed with where their team is at.

The Wigan result was particularly disappointing. It was a devastating one and an embarrassing one as well.

It's not happened that often this season. We've had two games where we've been well beaten and have been competitive in almost every other game.

That result last Saturday was really disappointing for all our fans, sponsors, staff, management, coaching staff and players themselves.

It was brought about primarily through the inadequacies of our own team and the excellence of the Wigan team. Two weeks before, Wigan went to a full-strength Catalans team and beat them 34-0.

Credit to Wigan. Catalans didn't implode but were well beaten on the day. Last week, we got beaten on the day with a very depleted team.

How far off do you think Leeds are from competing with the likes of St Helens and Wigan at the top of Super League again?

I think we're on the right course. We have had quite a lot of disruption over the recent past and have not had the nucleus of quality young players we've had historically. I think that's about to change.

In Rohan Smith, we've got somebody who's absolutely at the forefront of knowing what he wants. He's in the process of acquiring what he wants.

For 2024, he will have pretty much the retained players he's got a very healthy respect for and a nucleus of new players.

You've got three marquee spots for next season including a homegrown player – will you utilise all three?

Traditionally, we'll use whatever allowance we've got.

That's exciting for the fans because I don't think you've got any marquee players as it stands...

In Lachie Miller, we're bringing in an exceptionally talented player that is highly regarded in Australia. He will have a major presence next season, not only for our team but throughout the competition. We're bringing in a top-quality player.

In Matt Frawley, Rohan saw him as someone who will be bringing in experience, leadership and guidance, an experienced half-back who will add value to the squad.

In terms of Mickael Goudemand, he's a solid, high-quality leader who is coming in with the sort of experience we're lacking at present.

We've already got three good, quality players coming into the squad next year and there are more to come. Rohan's squad for next season will be an exciting one, and one that should be challenging for major honours.

Are quality players still available?

You've got to be on top of your game in terms of identifying and recruiting.

Everybody knows the players that are available – the key is knowing the players that may be available or could become available.

For that, you've got to have personal relationships, quality information and ultimately you've got to have a brand that players are prepared to join. I think we tick a lot of those boxes.

So there's a list of players available in the NRL and a list behind that you have that the public don't see?

Absolutely. Lachie Miller wasn't on the public list but through our relationships and information, we pursued that one and were successful in it.

Are you in a position to pay a transfer fee for a player these days?

There is the scope for any club to buy a player from another club but clubs aren't generally looking to sell their best players. They'll sell you a player they don't want to keep. The players that become available are few and far between.

I guess the million-dollar question is how do you get the club out of this constant state of transition?

It's an interesting question because often first-team results can mask what's actually going on in the organisation. If a team is winning every week, people assume that everything in your organisation is going really, really well. It might not be – you might have a whole host of problems.

In fact, we discovered that within our rugby operation we had a host of real problems and real challenges that had not surfaced and had to be identified and ultimately addressed. That's a job that Rohan has done extremely well since coming into the club.

We think a lot of improvement has been created within our organisation. That has not shown in our results. Our result last week suggested we're a club in crisis. We're not. We've actually got a very, very solid rugby league operation.

Our structure and organisation with the quality of people involved – even though a lot of those are new – is in pretty good shape. It's perfectly placed to be very successful going forward.

Clearly one of the areas we need to improve is the quality, experience and leadership within our first team to gain better results. That's an area that is being addressed, will be addressed and for the start of 2024 we'll have a team full of players that will be contracted for longer than one season.

I'm pretty confident that after a really difficult last few years, we're in a much better place than we have been. The fruits of that will be shown next year.

Given there’s a focus on a youthful core, is Harry Newman's contract (which expires next year) a priority?

Harry's got a huge concern about injuries. That's the biggest concern surrounding Harry Newman.

If you look at the number of games he played this season and last, and the number and type of injuries he's had, it's a huge concern for Harry himself and us. We want to provide the very, very best support we can to give him every opportunity to become the player he is.

We have got a very good crop of young players that will ultimately form the nucleus of our team going forward. For the immediate, we need to add more experience, more quality and more leadership to the current group of players for it to be really successful next year.

You've lost one of your better younger players in Sam Walters – could you have done more to keep him?

Sam wasn't featuring in our leading pack of middle players. He wanted to be seen as a wide-running edge forward and Rohan very much saw him as a player that could perform in the middle positions.

Because of the number of players we had in that position in Mikolaj Oledzki, Tom Holroyd, Justin Sangare, Sam Lisone, Sam (Walters) couldn't break into that group.

We would have preferred him to stay. He came through our academy system and has shown himself to be a Super League quality player.

We were disappointed to lose him and Rohan was disappointed to lose him but freedom of contract enables you to pursue other opportunities.

With the benefit of hindsight and the way he's performed in recent months, would you pay him what he asked for if you had your time again?

He wasn't getting in the team at the time. Since he's had an opportunity, he's been a pretty solid performer.

It was more down to opportunity than finance. Wigan were probably more certain in telling him where they saw him playing and his opportunities in the first team.

Rohan has come in for a lot of flak this year – is he still the man to lead the Rhinos long term?

Absolutely. It's important that the head coach has ownership of the rugby league operation.

There's a lot of people who can coach but at Leeds Rhinos we want the head coach to have an involvement, influence and impact on our whole rugby league operation. That goes for the first-team performances, clearly, but also the development of youth and all the support services – physio, player welfare, medical. The head coach has got to have an involvement in all of that.

Rohan Smith has got a degree in strength and conditioning so he's from a development background. He's been coaching since he was 20 years of age. He's got a real good understanding of player development – how long it takes and what young players require in terms of experience and opportunity.

In Rohan Smith, we've got someone who lives, breathes and sleeps Leeds Rhinos every day of the week. He's now fully ingrained in our organisation and is making some real strategic changes within the rugby department.

He knows he has my full support. Our board of directors are very supportive of the journey we're on.

We're all disappointed with the team's results this season but are all pretty confident we're on the right path. In Rohan Smith, we've got somebody who is very much at the head of that operation.

On yourself, has this period been as challenging as any point since your early years in the mid-1990s?

No. We've had some outstanding periods to enjoy – the players, the coaching staff, the fans, the sponsors and myself. You know when you're involved in sport that it's not all plain sailing and you have to make decisions not so much for today but tomorrow. They're the tough decisions that a lot of managers, chief executives and sports clubs don't make – they tend to live for today only.

We're very much focused on today, tomorrow and beyond. I think we're at a pretty good junction now in terms of delivering success for Leeds Rhinos in the future. We're also mindful that we need to be as successful as we can be next season as well.

Is the appetite still as strong as it ever has been?

It is, absolutely. I've often said that if you find a job you love, you'll never do a day's work in your life. I've never done a day's work in my life!

This is my passion and interest. It's what I've always done. I could think of no better place to be able to strive for success.

Have you had any thoughts about how much longer you'll continue?

As chief executive as you get older and wiser you develop the ability to delegate. I've certainly acquired that.

But one of the great successes of our organisation that doesn't normally get talked about is our quality of staff. We employ the best part of 100 people and are a very diverse business in terms of conference and banqueting, a hotel in addition to retail and a corporate and commercial part of our business.

We've got outstanding managers at all levels of our business who are very capable people. They're driven, focused and doing their bit to make our organisation successful.

I'm only a part of that team. In terms of what we've succeeded in, it's developing over time an outstanding management and staff that are very capable of meeting our challenges head on.

It has been a very disruptive period for the club over the last five or six years. We had the stadium rebuild and lived through that. We just about got that completed when Covid struck. That has had an impact right through our organisation.

That in itself has been a major challenge. Those are the types of challenges that focus me and our team.

Even though I'm just the chief executive of an organisation, I'm the chief executive of an outstanding organisation.

Is it a case of stay until the job is done and the men's team are back at the top of English rugby league?

We take a great deal of pride from the success of our women's team, our disability teams – learning and physical – the development and success of our wheelchair team, our academy team, our scholarship and the contribution our foundation makes throughout Leeds. That's not only in sports and rugby league development but in health, education and the various sectors they're involved in.

We recently appointed Jamie Jones-Buchanan to the board. He does an outstanding job developing the culture within this organisation and developing partnerships with other major players within the city and beyond.

So if you look at us as an organisation, we're a pretty vibrant organisation that is constantly dealing with its challenges but also planning for the future.

There will eventually be a future without me but I'd like to think that will be a successful transition, just like it was when I exited Sheffield Eagles having worked every day of the year for 12 years for a new challenge.

Life is all about challenges for me. Rugby league is my passion. I couldn't see myself and wouldn't wish to be involved in anything else.